are triangular bayonets illegal
These sources agree that it is not the triangular shape in itself causing profuse bleeding, rather it is the thrust of a strong bayonet in itself that does the damage. What is the truth about bayonets? Makes death a rapid certainty. I believe that was after WWI. Price: $52.95. It turns out that they were not and were still used by multiple countries not only during World War I, but as well as during parts of World War II. On the other hand, a Confederate bayonet does not have the same standardization in markings. The scar was unmistakable. The reasoning behind this was due to the ease of maintenance for the soldier on the battlefield. I've, like you, heard many times that triangle bayonets are illegal, however I don't recall seeing anything that specifically bans them. This looks like for an earlier gun, maybe muzzle loader. Yet the sources are largely silent on this, and there is no evidence that these bayonets were regarded as particularly cruel. Bayonets are obviously of no sporting utility, although they could be marginally useful in the personal and civil defense contexts. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskHistorians community. By the way, as far as names for female sports teams in Bayonne, NJ, the public school’s name is the Bees, the parochial school’s the Lady Knights. Samovar88, 8 years ago The inside diameter is pretty small, about 5/8 inch. or Best Offer. Sword and knife bayonets were used in later centuries. Nearly all of the bayonets were believed scrapped, making period examples like this one quite rare today. warof 1812, medicalcare, weapons, historicrowing crew. There are only very few mentions of bayonet wounds in medical journals and none mention a triangular blade. Country Pages —start here if you think you know the country of origin. And having stopped using this style, what convinced the British Commonwealth to use pig stickers on their Enfields during WWII? Untrue, I'm afraid. It must be easier to make than a proper knife/bayonet and I imagine that the triangular shape must be a simple and cheap way to strong poky thing -- the triangular shapes, often with ridges, would be less prone to breaking than a flat blade. The triangular shape often meant the innards are held by the bayonet when you twist so when extracted, out comes the bayonet, dragging some of the innards as well. That's kind of what I thought, that it was for strength. A socket bayonet, complete with retaining band for added security. Many Civil War bayonets (though not all) were socket-style, meaning they had a hole that slipped over the muzzle of the gun and locked into place. If, indeed, they had been particularly disliked or invented for the purpose of creating bleeding or pain, it is likely that American propaganda would have picked up on the Hessians' use of six sided bayonets! Triangle shaped bayonets create wounds that bleed more. Triangle bayonets are not explicitly mentioned in the Convention. The weight, shape and attachment of bayonets have changed throughout history in order to increase the effectiveness of the musket and the bayonet. Alessan March 21, 2010, 1:24pm #26 Or in their pawn shop. The Geneva Convention did ban triangular bayonets, knives etc.. 75,280 bayonets were believed produced during 1943–1944. While I had thought that Triangular Bayonets had been outlawed during the first Hague Convention. Certain states have "assault weapon"(sic) bans in place that do not allow the combination of certain features of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. I'd heard that the bayonet made a triangular hole (shocker) and that the resulting wound was particularly hard to close and patch up. It has a socket and a ring where it is attached to a rifle. There was no longer a need for pikemen to defend musketeers in battle because one soldier could defend himself against an enemy less than 100 yards away. of the hole? u.s.m1855 triangular bayonet & scabbard civil war type 1 with 2nd variation leather scabbard bayonet blade is 18" still has some brightness has never been sharpened ,3" socket,fits m1861 & m1863 us muskets leather scabbard has "b" stamped in leather inspector mark,good shape no rips see pics The bayonet blade is hand forged from high carbon, tempered steel. I'd recommend against using a bayonet afield. It shouldn’t really suprise anyone that an infantryman wanted to limit the horrible ways he could have died. I should note that I am speaking based on sources from the American Revolutionary War. Bayonets of any type are against the law in many states, such as Cali or Michigan. Jerry Miculek - Pro Shooter 1,051,152 views Just curious really, im buying the thing regardless. A trench knife is a combat knife designed to kill or incapacitate an enemy at close quarters, such as in a trench or other confined area. Legal Notice - International Military Antiques, Inc observes all Federal, State and local laws. $16.80 shipping. Under legislation sponsored by Representative William Hughes in 1990, any gun which could accept a bayonet could be considered an illegal "assault weapon." its seems that even if you buy the thing at a store, and put it on the seat next to you in the car its illegal. Press J to jump to the feed. Proceeds and commissions from these sales - in part - go towards the purchase of additional reference materials and acquisition expenses. KarlGauss March 19, 2010, 3:53pm The triangular bayonet blade is made from hand forged high carbon tempered steel. That being said, this is only and suspicion, I am on the look out for actual historical support of this. Rather than listing, the knives are that legal to own, it may be easier to list the knives that bear restrictions. Some have a permanently mounted "illegal" triangular bayonet, which leaves a sucking wound that will not close. Why use triangular blades? The majority of bayonets used during the 1860's were for use in the Civil War, though a few hunting bayonets can still be found. “According to the Geneva Convention of 1949: That a ban is placed on serrated and angular bayonets, because the wounds left behind place undue suffering that persists even after the conflict has been resolved. Sku:AH-3551. A triangular bayonet causes no more injury than an equally sized bullet wound Triangular bayonets are legal, just don't mount them on a rifle. Made by N.J. Edmunds (S356) (20k) and Grundy Ltd. (S41) (56k). Sword bayonets were popularly attached to “Baker Rifles.” The "Bayonet History" page of Armoury Online agrees that "the most serious wounds can be inflicted with a thrusting stroke using a slim, rigid blade - a form which is embodied by the triangular and cruciform bladed socket bayonet.". Everything for sale on ima-usa.com is completely legal to own, trade, transport and … It is illegal to own the following types of knives in California: Cane knives, lipstick knives, belt knives and any other knife that can be classified as misleading is illegal … Patterned after the French M1777 Charleville musket and designated the “New Prussian Musket,” these were made into the 1830s at the Prussian state arsenals. ALPHA military phonetic for the letter 'A' ammo dump location where live or expended ammunition is stored amtrack amphibious armored vehicle used to transport troops and supplies, armed with a .30-caliber machine gun. What is the dia. or Best Offer. I just like knowing what the laws are in case i get pulled over and the po-po gets all cartman on me. It's "illegal" on a battlefield, but not in your house. I have been told on several occasions that the old triangular bayonet was meant to inflict a would that was messier and harder to heal than a flat blade. $275.00. Free shipping on many items | Browse your favorite brands | affordable prices. Barrett M107 .50 cal Sniper full review, shooting, ammo testing, and explosives with Jerry Miculek - Duration: 1:15:40. Triangular Bayonets - banned, disliked or what? If saw-tooth bayonets are illegal, I guess those C02 knives used by divers are out of the question. Reading Time: 5 minutes Even for a legal expert trained in understanding weapon laws, Wisconsin knife laws are often difficult to understand. He was a reenactor who had been stuck when a fellow reenactor tripped and thrust his bayonet through the poor fellow's bicep. Why stop? Visit our Shopping Site pages and buy from us direct or visit our Books for Sale pages and buy research materials from one of our affiliates. The primary reason for the confusion stems from the ambiguous wording of statutes that lead to protracted legal battles inside civil and criminal courts. These bayonets would have to have been used to take down horses. He told me that bayonets are not legal in California, to which I replied I thought only permanently-affixed bayonets (such as on the Yugo SKS) were illegal. Bayonets aren't illegal anywhere in the US. BTW here is the law on Chinese SKS- that started a lot of this Since the wound inflicted by triangular bayonets is difficult to repair, and causes more initial bleeding than that of a two sided bayonet, one could classify triangular bayonets under a clause which prohibits weapons causing undue suffering after the conflict has ended. California is an open-carry state. For further info check out my book "Guide to Bayonets of the World" at http://www.wbdpublications.co.uk/11-bayonets/index.htm. Civil War Enfield Type Bayonet . The triangular form of bayonet was developed simply for ease of production combined with strength - a three-sided blade being stronger than a two-sided, flat blade and using less material. Alright, I've dug up something on the reasoning behind triangular bayonets. Table of Contents. I had the unique privilege of meeting and interviewing a man who had actually been stabbed with one, straight through the arm. Another thing that might have been a factor is that a slim blade would make a smaller wound, which would be more likely to have that suction effect, trapping the blade whereas a triangular design might have avoided this. Triangular Bayonets “According to the Geneva Convention of 1949: That a ban is placed on serrated and angular bayonets, because the wounds left behind place undue suffering that persists even after the conflict has been resolved. Price: $52.95. Bayonet History Timeline —read about key milestones in the bayonet's history, from the 1500s to the present day.. Bayonet Terminology —diagrams showing the basic terminology used to describe bayonets, scabbards, and frogs.. Glossary of Bayonet Terms— definitions of common bayonet terms. My Mosin-Nagant has a square bayonet, and I was told by the guy I bought it from that it was A) because that was easy to produce en masse and B) because wounds from it were harder to close. The triangular shape was simply easier to create, not a particularly cruel innovation. From the rules in the Hague Convention it'd depend on whether or not they are designed to cause unnecessary suffering or not, and then what is … $395.00. I have been told on several occasions that the old triangular bayonet was meant to inflict a would that was messier and harder to heal than a flat blade. Wikipedia: Bayonet #Early History I can't remember the source, but I think the pig sticker style of bayonet was made to make it easier to punch through the heavy wool coats, uniforms, and whatever webbing got in the way. (76 mm.) A socket bayonet, on the other hand, has a triangular blade in cross-section. Ending Thursday at 6:05PM PST 3d 14h. Lots of threads mention that the profuse bleeding was just an added bonus. On April 24, 1863, President Lincoln issued the finished code as Instructions for the Government of Armies of the United States in the Field, General Order No. Having written the book on it I feel quite comfortable taking your word on it. According to The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Warfare, "bayonets with long triangular cross-sections were stronger in the charge and thrust than single or double bladed weapons" (Page 414). The triangular bayonet blade is made from hand forged high carbon tempered steel. The bayonet transformed the musket from a medium to long range weapon into one effective at close range as well. Sku:AH-3551. Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/rifle/3/1288253580.jpg. The Portal for Public History Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. A bayonet (from French baïonnette) is a knife, dagger, sword, or spike-shaped weapon designed to fit on the end of the muzzle of a rifle, musket or similar firearm, allowing it to be used as a spear. Non-automatics are exempt from this law. From the 17th century to World War I, it was considered a primary weapon for infantry attacks.Today, it is considered an ancillary weapon or a weapon of last resort. Enfield Bayonet. The bleeding had been profuse, but not preposterously so. I have also been told that triangular bayonets were banned by the Geneva Convention because of … If you have one you're good to go. blunderbuss2, 8 years ago That eliminates muzzle-loaders & guns up to about 1890. The bayonet was primarily used during cavalry charges and in close range combat. Get the best deals on Bayonet when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com. Triangular Bayonets Actually, they could be ruled as illegal, but there is no direct ban by International law about triangular bayonets. Is the use of bayonets addressed by any international agreements? Ease of production, maybe? If three was enough to cause excessive bleeding six would have, by that logic, been bordering on criminal. The unfullered triangular blade and longer 3.00 in. Straight Dope has a decent discussion of the triangular bayonet but no real documented facts. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://www.wbdpublications.co.uk/11-bayonets/index.htm. They are made of a single- or double-edged blade that could be used as a short sword. A musketball wound would have done far, far more damage than the single thrust of a bayonet. Our high quality Enfield Bayonet is a replica of the Enfield Bayonet that was used during the American Civil War. A Union bayonet from the Civil War era will usually have the word "U.S.” on its underside, and might have a serial number engraved in the same location. NOTE: this is pure speculation on my part. $30.00 shipping. Our high quality Enfield Bayonet is a replica of the Enfield Bayonet that was used during the American Civil War. The idea seems to go hand-in-hand with a myth that the Geneva or Hague conventions banned the use of triangular bayonets (already discussed elsewhere on this talk page), so I expect it is itself a myth. 0 bids. U.S.M1855 TRIANGULAR BAYONET & SCABBARD CIVIL WAR. Identify the shape and size of Civil War-era bayonets. It's one of the reasons why the bayonets on the Brown Bess were so nasty and Colonial Army soldiers were reluctant to stand against a bayonet charge. After searching, I am pretty sure the Geneva Convention ban is not true. The screwdriver point, mentioned in this thread, was developed to easier penetrate bone than a sharp point. I have also been told that triangular bayonets were banned by the Geneva Convention because of this. The triangular shape is therefore a result of manufacturing for strength, not necessarily to create the unique shape of the wound it would cause. Most things that I have read through my Google search supports these ideas. The thing that I am missing is any actual documentation on this. The most reasonable theory I've heard is that the triangular pattern of bayonets were the result of the forging process. Bayonets from Selected Countries of the World updated March 4, 2008: Help us keep this Identification Service alive. I suspect that ease of production plays a huge part in this. US Civil War German Made Bayonet Short Sword w/ … They just didn’t opt for the obvious choice. The fellow I met who took one in the arm had a very peculiar triangular shaped wound, but it did not bleed any more than you would think, and the flaps off skin were sliced in such a way that the doctor could simply stitch them together again. socket distinguishes the M1809 from the later M1839 bayonet. The bayonet blade is hand forged from high carbon, tempered steel. The triangular blade causes no more blood loss than a wound made by any other bayonet of comparative size. Example of a plug bayonet showing the end of a knife inserted into the muzzle of a musket. Enfield Bayonet. I sold my M1 Garand and bayonet to a California buyer, but my dealer refused to ship the bayonet.
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